Robert_Schmidt wrote: I have made a suggestion regarding how to give astrological meaning to a planet that makes its exact heliacal rising before or after the standard 15 portion interval.
But how do you define 'exact heliacal rising' ?
And how do you compute it ?
Because if we do not answer these 2 questions first then there is no 'interpretation' either....
Everybody among the Greeks and most of the Arabs knew what heliacal rise is !
This is not when a planet is 15 degrees distant from the Sun, but
...quando exeunt de sub radiis solis et incipiunt apparere de mane...
...when they come out of the beams of the Sun and begin to appear in the dawn...
So, any 'Statistics' or 'study' based on false dates of 'heliacal phases' would be useless.
If we were to collect charts of people born when Mercury was visible ( NOT 'upo dusin' ) then how do we do this ?
Compute the day when Mercury is 15 or more degrees away !
Hell no !
We should compute the days when Mercury REALLY was visible and in this way we should examine people in the 'clinical' practice.
I hope you follow me exactly.
The real heliacal phase of a planet is a REAL thing and we can get Real results only working with real things !
The visibility of a planet JUST like the price of a stock on the stock-market tells the essence of what it's worth...
I respect the Hellenistic Astrologers who worked with their rough method of 15 degrees from the Sun, because they simply did not know better.
But only if they knew how to compute the real phases, can you guess what would they work with ...?
So, the real practical research would be in this way.
Look for groups of people with invisible planet for example.
Let us say Mars.
Cardan says that women with invisible Mars are prone to casual sex.
I have seen this in several cases in good correllation with the facts.
But in day charts only.
In night charts- it is the opposite !
One interesting fact: Hitler had Invisible Mars!
Though that Mars is 16 degrees away from his Sun.
Mars in Hitler stays invisible +-7 days from his Birth.
So, he is not making a phase in the +-7 days interval.
It is impossible to understand Bill Gates without the h phases too.
Venus rose in the morning 3 days before his birth and Mercury 6 (days before).
[i say again that i work with the real heliacal phases here. i examine people with a program that computes these real heliacal phases]
I am collecting also what the Greeks say about planets 'upo dusin' or 'upaugos'.
So, Robert I will appreciate if you have a ready list with these. I can add to it too.
I think Michael Erlewine should enable us also to write in Greek letters on this forum
But, Michael, I am serious - Can you do this ? I promise I will not ask for Akkadian
at least not now
One last thing:
When I think about the Real Heliacal Phases and these computed on the ecliptic (15 deg. away from Sun),
this reminds me of,
the Real Primary Directions and the Symbolic 1 ecliptical deree = 1 year !
In the end I will give here the days since the birth of Bill Gates (Gates-era) when MERCURY was visible in Seattle for 0.24 extinction (which is the correct one there).
[small move to the south or noth may change the dates dramatically]
MF = Morning First
ML = Morn. Last
EF = Eve First
EL = Eve Last
Mercury Seattle extinction = 0.24
22 Oct 1955 MF
18 Nov 1955 ML
30 Dec 1955 EF
16 Jan 1956 EL
14 Apr 1956 EF
07 May 1956 EL
07 June 1956 MF
08 June 1956 ML
07 Oct 1956 MF
30 Oct 1956 ML
21 Dec 1956 EF
26 Dec 1956 EL
And let us finish with the Chart of Bill Gates.
You will see that he has Invisible Saturn.
3 doriphoria and 2 planets making Phases = Most Powerful Chart
His Guardian angels are powerful.
Mercury is also his Ego (also Venus has big influence).
Here the systems of computation are:
Porphyry : God's Light - Guardian Angels : Epikratetor-Oikodespotes: Hyleg-Alcocoden: Moon - Mars and Venus
Porphyry : House system: ( 5 degrees cusps offset)
Porphyry (my Interpretaion) : Ego: Kurios:Almuten: Mercury
Porphyry : Doriphoria: Jupiter, Mercury, Mars (contra-doriphoria, par airesin Jupiter )
Hyleg: Aura of Light
Contra-Doriphoria: black axes
[If we compute the Kurios according to your interpretation of Porpyry, Robert, we will get as Kurios the Moon followed by Mars ]
Now here is again the Chart of Bill Gates- this time with the WHOLE-SIGN house system.
Here also the Second Round of the Porphyrius Kurios-Algorithm is switched off.
Now Venus is the Ego- the King-the Almuten
The Kurios closest to the blood-line of the Ancient King who founded the country, this Kurios is VENUS.
She comes with most rulerships in the First Round.
However, Mercury is also of very strong Royal Blood and More-Powerful than Venus.
This is shown by the Second Round of choosing the Kurios (as described by the historic Porphyry)
Mercury is more powerful.
He may rule the country better.
That's why Porphyrius Magus (Porphyry put into a computer program) annoints him for the King.
The next screen shows How actually Porphyrius Magus computes the Kurios.
The first row is the first round of computation where we line up the candidates.
The second row is how we choose from all candidates the one
-" most epitomizing the whole Genesis (birth-chart) " [Porphyry]-
and proclaim him for the King.
This is my working theory of Porphyry here BUT we are free to custom it and tell Porphyrius Magus how to conform it to other views.