The Part of Innocence aka Lawsuits aka Disputes

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

[copied from mt thread on this same topic at astrologyweekly.com]

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I've neglected this thread for awhile. I want to introduce the Arabic Part that is called the Part of Lawsuits or Part of Disputes.
Afew years ago unaware that this Part had been recognized I asked my clairvoyant friend about this Part and how it should be so named. I had noticed that the formula is basically the opposite of that for what is known as the Part of Intelligence or Part of Skill or Part of Wisdom...I inquired if it should not be then so called the Part of Ignorance or Part of Lack of Wisdom...She replied; "i see it as the 'Part of Innocence'."
It has so far proven to my satisfaction that indeed it should be know as that...the Part of Innocence. [...in being 'Innocent' of knowing something... illustrated symbolically by the Sabian Symbol found at that degree...such 'not knowing'...could very easily be perceived as a 'Dispute'...]
The formula is Asc. + Mercury - Mars...for this Chart that I propose is that of Yeshua it comes to 18* Gemini 34'...i.e. the 19th degree of Gemini.]

from Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols:

" (GEMINI 19°): A LARGE ARCHAIC VOLUME REVEALS A TRADITIONAL WISDOM.

KEYNOTE: Contacting the all-human planetary Mind underlying any cultural and personal mentality.

Occult tradition tells us that all cyclic manifestations of the human mind have had a primordial revelatory Source. It speaks of ancient books made of especially treated papyrus leaves and conveying through symbols the archetypal processes at the root of all earthly existence (see Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine). Such volumes, said to remain in the possession of certain Adepts, constitute the "exteriorization" of archetypal knowledge and wisdom. They contain the "seed-ideas" from which the human mind grows, cyclically producing cultures of various types.

This fourth stage symbol evokes for us the "technique" by means of which the human mind can uncover the foundations of its nature and acquire what might be called SEED-KNOWLEDGE, the knowledge of the structure of cyclic and cosmic manifestations of life on this planet."


.well, that is interesting...as each person has a point of Innocence... a weakness...a debility as it is...it is most intriguing to fathom what Jesus/Yeshuas most likely had been.
This phrase "Seed Knowledge" is exactly the overall tenor of the birth chart of Rudhyar himself...in fact the very term and appropriate symbology is in a couple of significant degrees in Danes chart.
Thinking about it I can see plausibility here. Yeshua was always focused on the 'Above' ..The Divine...the Macro...not he Meso so much...what 'seed knowledge' man can access and to what purpose it serves would probably be of little interest to Yeshua...he was all about 'awakening' people...bringing them to awareness and awareness and understanding of Divine seeds of knowledge...he need no tools of divination,,,amulets for protection or healing...no sigils or incantations as He could already portend, protect, heal, manifest, trans-mutate...etc.

interestingly President Obamas is the 28th of Sag and that degree is the Part ofr Tragedy or Fatality for Yeshua [Asc. + Saturn - Sun] it is about an Old Covered Bridge across a beautiful stream and represents an 'intercessor' to 'The Other Side"...and Rudhyars keywords for the symbology and degree is "The Beautiful Necessity"...and it is the Beautiful Necessity of Yeshuas life that he had to die physically, a "Fatality", that had to be in order for Him to become that "Covered Bridge", [a protective intercessor] across the 'stream', to "The Beyond".
This along with Obamas Part of Imprisonment being the 19th of Pisces [it is symbolically 'that' which is kept from our approaching it...we are 'imprisoned from it'...and the 19th of Pisces being "The master Instructing the Discipile"...well, It certainly has given me cause to consider his Islamic upbringing and the question of His current spiritual orientation.

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

I will have a hard time admitting this...but...my own Part of Innocence is @ 11* Libra 03'...that is the 12th degree of Libra...but, seeing as how there is only a 3' diff. from the cusp it may indeed be the 11th degree...

...alas, here is mine at the 12th...
[from Rudhyars book "An Astrological Mandala"}
" (LIBRA 12°): MINERS ARE SURFACING FROM A DEEP COAL MINE.

KEYNOTE: The need to carry on at ever-deeper levels the quest for knowledge which keeps burning the fires of the collective mind of a society.

The search for knowledge demands the dedication of many minds digging ever deeper into the realities of our earthly existence. It is a hard, often dark pursuit amidst great difficulties and the possibility of being spiritually asphyxiated by the constant intellectual effort and tension. When a person is confronted by this symbol it could be interpreted as showing the need for such an intellectual dedication but also as pointing to the advisability of emerging from it and leading a more natural life.

This second stage symbol is related to the first in that in both we see conditions of existence dealing with work for the sake of the collectivity. The opposition between intellectual and manual work is evident; less so is the fact that both classes of workers experience definite physical consequences as a result of their occupation: the eyes of the professor, the lungs of the coal miner. The professor digs in the intellectual past of mankind to find what may warm up the mental processes of his students; the coal miner brings to the surface the ancient remains of what once was living substance. Keyword: EXTRACTION


if it is indeed the 11th... [about a 20 second diff. on the clock...then...[and I think this is correct as per myself...
" (LIBRA 11°): A PROFESSOR PEERING OVER HIS GLASSES AT HIS STUDENTS.

KEYNOTE: Problems attending the transmission of knowledge in a special cultural setup.

This is a rather peculiar symbol for this phase of the process, and it reveals a rather humorous approach to what man's mind can accomplish at this stage. However, there seems to be no valid reason to make the image into some kind of a caricature, or to sentimentalize it by referring to a "kind old professor." Rather one should analyze the picture in order to discover its basic elements. The professor has dealt so much with books that he has greatly strained his eyes; in days when bifocal lenses were not widely used, he had to peer over his glasses in order to see his students. The symbol thus simply reveals two aspects of the condition of "professor-ship" — that is, of being able to transfer to the young generation the vast sum of knowledge accumulated by the past. The need to absorb this enormous amount of book knowledge affects the mind as well as the eyes; in order to meet the demands of the turbulent youth, the teacher in a sense has to look above this knowledge and to see his students simply as human beings.

This is the first symbol in the thirty-ninth five-fold sequence. It deals at the intellectual level with the teaching of accumulated collective knowledge, and the problem posed by the acquisition of that knowledge. This is what INSTRUCTION means — a process not to be confused with "education."