Birth Chart of Jesus?

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

[I also offer this copy of a thread at the same aforementioned web-site forum as a further understanding of what all is implied here at this time. It is a bit out of context but I think it will be clear to all that read it that are students or practitioners of Astrology...I'll await any complaints to the contrary.]


"It was the book by Robert Zoeller on Arabic Parts that mentions this reversal on page 65 specifically. The book by Rudhyar is only giving clues as to this and it is apparent when one reads the symbols for the 30th of Virgo and the 1st of Libra and has an understanding of what I will here explain.
One has to realize that although He gives the keyword[s] definition as "Conquest of Illusion" Elsies vision was of one who is just beginning the attempt. [this is the prime reason I decry those that are putting their own books out about the symbols and are taking liberties with what Elsie actually described...I'm not saying those newer books don't have something to contribute but to always refer to the original 'vision' that was described.]
And when dealing with His definition that the 1st of Libra represents the "Perfect Form of Man" not to let yourself be indoctrinated by Christian church dogma that Jesus was born in that form but that the symbol is of a Butterfly which is born a caterpillar and must undergo a metamorphosis.
Then take Rudhyars statement that 'All paths of true spiritual discipleship begin in Virgo" to understand that it begins in the opposite direction from Virgo 30* to Libra 1*.
The aforementioned is pertaining directly to what you asked me for...the following is my own additional take on the situation and it need not interfere with what I just gave you....as you can ignore it.

Since I produced my proposed birth chart for Jesus/Yeshua [of which I and a number of people are throughly convinced of being valid.] I have been under the impression He was born in perfect form and that the result of the process concluded by his life was the conquest of illusion. Now it's obviously the other way around.
As my chart has the Moon at the 30th degree of Virgo and Pluto [Planet of Transformation] at the 1st of Libra [with His Asc. which might be in fact wedged between the two.] it jibes with what I've been taught by my Gurus of Oriental origin, specifically, of the Sanatan Dharm...i.e. 'Hinduism' ...with my apologies to those offended by the term 'Hindu'. That all beings born into this world must make a journey to achieve perfection. [The legend/history of Krishna is that He manifested and wasn't born is explanation as to Krishna being perfection incarnate from the get-go...Rama having been born is another matter...but, they are both valid Archetypes for those that follow that path. And as such I am not stating that Jesus/Yeshua is any less valid an Archetype...just that he has been slightly mis-represented...and I know that those of the Jewish faith will certainly agree with me on that point...i.e. 'mis-represented']
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[David_Mastrogiovanni]

New Observation on...

The Septile Matrix.
["According to Marc [Edmond] Jones, the key meaning of the septile is 'fatality'..." {Dane Rudhyar and Leyla Rael; "Astrological Aspects. A Process Oriented Approach."]


The Septile Matrix that has 4 of the 7 points complete at birth are:
#1. Pluto/Asc/Moon @ 29* Virgo 25'- 0* Libra 59' [allowing a wide orb of influence around the Zodiac.]
#3. Mars @ 18* Gemini 56"
#5. Venus @ 06* Pisces 47"
#7. Neptune @ 24* Scorpio 26'

The missing points that were filled the day after, what would have to be, the first Easter Sunday. [ i.e. The first Sunday after the first Full Moon of Spring]

#2. Saturn @ 12* Leo 39' & Jupiter 12* Leo 57'
#4. Sun @ 25 Aries 29'
#6. Moon @ 14* Capricorn 00"

Interestingly the following Arabic Parts of the natal chart...please note:
Part of Death [Medval] [C8 + Saturn - Moon] @ 07* Aquarius 19'...directly opposite point # 2.
Part of Bereavement [C12 + R12 - Neptune] @ 09* Aquarius 53'... almost directly opposite point # 2.
Part of Insincerity [Asc + Moon - Neptune] @ 16* Gemini 57' conj. point # 3.
Part of Disputes [Asc + Venus - Mars] 18* Gemini 34' conj. point # 3.
Part of False Love [Asc. + Neptune - Venus] @ 18* Gemini 22' conj. point # 3.
Part of Disappointment [Asc. - + Mars - Neptune] @ 25* Aries 13' conj. point # 4.
Part of Life/Re-incarnation [Asc + Saturn - Jupiter] @ 25* Aries 57' conj. point # 4.
Part of Death/Disaster {Asc + C8 - Moon} @ 29* Aries 36' [about 2* off the orb...allowable.]
Part of Suicide [Asc. + C8 - Neptune] 04* Pisces 35' conj. point # 5
Part of Deceit [Asc + Venus - Neptune] 13* Capricorn 05' conj. point # 6.
Part of Destiny [Mc + Sun - Moon] 13* Capricorn 14' conj. point # 6.
Part of Unusual Events [Asc + Uranus - Moon] 25* Scopio 43' con. point #7.
Part of Discord [Asc + Jupiter -Mars] 24* Taurus 59' opp. point #7.
_________________________________________________________________NOTE:__________________________________________________________________________
For what this may be of worth to some of you , Ruldolph Steiner said the day of death was 14 days after Jesus/Yeshuas' 32nd birthday and this is 14 days after the day I say is the birth i.e. April 2nd.________________

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

More on Septiles from Rudhyar and Raels book: "Astrological Aspects. A Process Oriented Approach".

"According to Marc [Edmond] Jones, the key meaning of the septile is 'fatality'...But there is far more to these septiles than fatality---or this term has to be made to cover a greater depth of meaning than is usually the case. In the septile we find a potential gate to immortality, as well as the possible assumption of a collective and historical destiny---a potentiality only, we must stress...lead us to believe that it can be shown on good evidence that where ever a setile is to be found in a chart, and the individual is able to realize at least to some extent its positive implications, the septile indicates the direction in which the individual is led to his or her destiny by some out standing achievment or compulsion---the former being dependent upon a typical kind of inner attitude. One can probably also say that the septile implies some kind of psychological complex or spiritual compulsion---and in that sense it may be called an expression of 'fate'. What seems to be fate or fatality to the living and striving or suffering personality may be differently interpreted in relation to spirit, which transcends [while including]the particular personality. Spirit compels the inclusion of whatever remains valuable in what has previously been devalued or denied...there are deaths [large and small] that are sacrificial gifts, and not somber tragedies simply because they are geared to the vast cycle of human evolution, and as such are tokens of immortality."
__________________

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

I was talking with a Suryakant the other night on the phone [He lives in Oregon nowadays.] We came to the conclusion that the timing of the birth had to be guaranteed as to such exactness so as to produce the most specific natal Astrology at the given moment.
Thus the reason God saw to the impregnation of Mary as the conception had to be at a precise moment.
Think about it

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

In support of my theory on the Star of Bethlehem and that Pluto was conj. the 'Star' or actually somehow was part of a a optical phenomena [a Stellium of Pluto and trans-Plutonian planets] and that the phenomena and/or these trans-Plutonian Planets conj. at Libra 01* related to cycles of 666 and 888 years. I found this this morning while researching legends and history on Glastonbury, England, King Arthur and Joseph of Arimathea.

" The rhombus was discovered to be the key to the mysterious medieval sign of the Vesica Piscis, the sign of the fish. This was found to be derived from the cube unfolded, producing the sign of the Cross with the three horizontal and four vertical bars, which when cubed, produce twenty-seven and sixty-four. All other numbers in ratio are found in the square of seventy-four, the circle of 231, and a rectangle of 37 x 64. Such is the external measure of the Lady Chapel at Glastonbury Abbey – 37 feet by 64 feet. This was the site of the first ecclesiastical building to be erected there. Architecture down the ages, in all climes, through all races and civilisations, conforms to one set of rules only, and indicates the basic Unity of God and therefore of all religions. It is canonical and eternal and its interpretation has always been recognised in a metaphysical context.

We have now to consider two important facts:

a) Architectural proportions are the same throughout all civilisations.
b) These proportions are to be understood as the means of interpreting astronomy and astrology through various myths.

It is interesting to note that the knowledge which the ancients possessed coincides with the knowledge of the solar system and universe we have today. This knowledge has been gained through use of the most scientific instruments and is of such a complex nature that even now it has not been fully interpreted. How this knowledge was obtained before is a mystery, but the ancient astronomers knew the distances of the planets from the earth and sun and also the time it took them to move round the sun. They computed the planet Pluto (apparently) even though it was not visible to them. They also computed Saturn and Jupiter as well as how often they conjoined and in which sign of the zodiac they lay.

It takes Pluto 248 years to move through the twelve signs of the zodiac. The length of the nave to the high altar in Bristol Cathedral is 248 feet. The height of the central tower of Wells Cathedral is given at about 164 feet. It takes Neptune some 164 years to pass through the twelve signs. There are eighteen periods of thirty-seven lunar eclipses which total 666 years and are called a ’saros’. The overall length of Glastonbury Abbey was 666 feet. This number is also associated with the ’magic square’ of the sun.

Although I have not carried out an on-the-spot survey of the parish church of St Mary at Wedmore, nevertheless a rough estimate may be attempted that the overall length of the church will be in the region of 222 feet. This is also the measure of St Mary Redcliffe, Bristol, whose spire is also about 222 feet in height. The correspondences might appear vague but they are correspondences. The system adopted by the antique architects appears to have been called the ’Canon of Proportion’, which relates all the seven sciences of the ancients and interprets them through use of the Hebrew grammar. Hebrew is a very old tongue and was in reality the sacred tongue of the Church until it was removed and Latin adopted in its place. The Hebrew alphabet, like the Latin (and Greek for that matter), has numerical values for each of the letters. When a group of letters are placed together they give a total which in turn, when grammatically considered, produce a word or a phrase. Such a system is known as ’gematria. Only consonants are considered; they give the root-origin to a word or a phrase. When transferring such words and phrases to the heavens it is of some significance to discover that the main star groups are mentioned in Hebrew and to this day many retain their original Hebrew names. Astrologically of course yet another system or canon develops and this in turn reveals that stars not only changed their names but their nature, according to the time of year and day in which they moved across the sky. This is where the renewable nuances of myth enter the picture."

...For the complete text here's the link: http://www.isleofavalon.co.uk/history/grail.html

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

Greetings. My discovery yesterday of a web-site on Glastonbury and evidence of knowledge of astronomical/astrological data that has been denounced , to date, as having been impossible to have been known prior to the most recent of times has really giving some theories of mine a boost and propelled me into new realms.

The mention of the cycle of years of 666 being a measurement of Lunar Eclipses
declares when combined with the knowledge of the ancient Hebrews pertaining to their reverence for synodic cycles of the Moon declares that it is the synodic periods and not the sidereal that are of concern to Astrology. Just what I believed was correct all along.
In my book I talk about the conjunction of the astrological cycles of 666 years and 888 years and why I believe them to always conj. at Libra 01*. [as cycles of 666 and 888 will always conjunct only at the same place...i.e every 2664 years @ Libra 01*]
I have noted in my book that this is very, very, very close, if not exactly, to a whole integer factor of a complete cycle of the Yugas of Vedic science.
[ps. Actually Sri Yuketeswar said that the exact figures had been lost and he was giving an educated estimation. D.M.]

It is said in the book "The Holy Science" by Sri Yukteswar, that this cycle is 24,000 years. If we add one cycle of the 666/888 we have the figure of 26,664. That is almost exactly, 26,640, that is 10 times 2664 or 10 turns of the 666/888 cycle.
As I have stated that the Avatars appear every 26,640 years [source, "The Holy Science" ...as far as I can recall, or it may be from another source of Vedic knowledge of which I'm at a present loss to remember exactly.] and that when one of the cycles of 2664 years is also conjunct Pluto, which can only occur at 01* Libra, that is when the Avatar appears.
If we divide 26,664 by 248.09 [the current approximation of Plutos' synodic orbit] we come up with the figure of 107.4 [apprx].
There are 108 beads on a Japa Mala...[not counting the "Guru Bead"...which is extraneous but purposeful.] The Catholic Rosary uses 54 + 1...which is a half factor of the Yogis Japa Mala.

This illustrates in a most important statement that why it is only correct in Astrology to utilize the Tropical Zodiac as it is based on synodic cycles and synodic cycles have to do with illumination from the Sun...Gods Eternal Light that is one with The Word and Gods Eternal Love, made manifest here, in our physical realm [Maya].
All evidence to date has shown that the Christians at Glastonbury, which is the true rightful seat of the 1st and true Church of Christ, [IMHO and by my educated reasoning.] knew the importance of Sun rites [Pujas to us Yogis] and gives great creditability to those of us that have denounced the Vatican for persecuting those of us that do such rites and those of us that choose to use and stick by the Tropical Zodiac.
"Parsifal, The Knight of the Sun, The Knight of the Word, The Knight of the Sword. He whom reads the Starry Script"
Think about this folks! D.M.
__________________
"Now because evil has five members while the good has seven, the good only remains by itself at the beginning and at the end. But, in the middle period of its evolution it dips down into the five and redeems the harmony of the twelve foldedness." Manichean

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

A speculative conclusion can be drawn from this that if the above theory of the cycle of Lunar Eclipses being correct as to the sign of an birth of an Avatar then it stands to reason that as my proposed birth chart for Yeshua/Jesus has it occurring during the 24hr. period during a full moon and that the Full Moon is obfuscating the 1st degree of Libra that the anticipated birth of an Avatar must occur during the first full Moon that involves Libra 01* after the conclusion of the cycle of the Yugas. [as I concluded and described above.]
This then is stating that all the Avatars that are born of this cycle are indeed Aries.
As the most revered avatar from India, known as Ram, from a time of great antiquity, in fact has the name of RAM...and that all languages of the Caucasian race has Sanskrit for it's root mother tongue...isn't it interesting that the sign of Aries is referred to as the Sign of the RAM...co-incidence?.....Hmmmmmmm

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

There has been raised much opposition to this chart due to the birth date allegedly being after the death of King Harod.
I wish to quote from the readings of Edgar Cayce on the life of Thesea, Harods wife,

From reading number 2067.
" Q. What can be given for Thesea, the Roman Queen of Palestine.

A. Beginning 28 B.C. and extending to A.D. 6. As to the children, there were only two and neither of those became the ruler, but were associated with the ruler in a portion of the divided district.

As to the appearance; five feet, 6 inches of height; black of hair; almost blue of eyes; prominent cheeks but a great deal of color in the general form or make-up; weight 129 lb.

The death was brought about by the decree issued before the carcinoma germs brought death to Harod himself--because of His aversion to Her living beyond the period of Harod, and the order [was] issued by Him before his death. "


Cayce thus stated that Harod died sometime around or after 6 A.D.

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

[copied from mt thread on this same topic at astrologyweekly.com]
I MADE A SERIOUS ERROR HERE LAST YEAR IN POSTING THE DEGREE AND SYMBOL FOR HIS MARS AND NOT THE PART OF INNOCENCE...I APOLOGIZE.
In my defense I do want to say I was still subject to a great deal of grief at the time having just lost my mother unexpectedly a few months prior and was also under a certain amount of stress...luckily I caught this gaff this evening while checking prior posts at the astrologyweekly.com forum and have made rectification there...I will clip and paste the correct information at the present in this thread...I will leave this one stand as to not confuse those of you that have read this thread to date [2/21/2012] so as a courtesy...what I've written about Barrack Obama is correct. Thank you for understanding. David Mastrogiovanni
____________________________________________________________________________________

I've neglected this thread for awhile. I want to introduce the Arabic Part that is called the Part of Lawsuits or Part of Disputes.
Afew years ago unaware that this Part had been recognized I asked my clairvoyant friend about this Part and how it should be so named. I had noticed that the formula is basically the opposite of that for what is known as the Part of Intelligence or Part of Skill or Part of Wisdom...I inquired if it should not be then so called the Part of Ignorance or Part of Lack of Wisdom...She replied; "i see it as the 'Part of Innocence'." [note: since writing this I have also proposed the title of Part of Naivete`. DM]
It has so far proven to my satisfaction that indeed it should be know as that...the Part of Innocence. [...in being 'Innocent' of knowing something... illustrated symbolically by the Sabian Symbol found at that degree...such 'not knowing'...could very easily be perceived as a 'Dispute'...]
The formula is Asc. + Mercury - Mars...for this Chart that I propose is that of Yeshua it comes to 18* Gemini 34'...i.e. the 19th degree of Gemini.]

from Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols:

" (GEMINI 19°): A LARGE ARCHAIC VOLUME REVEALS A TRADITIONAL WISDOM.

KEYNOTE: Contacting the all-human planetary Mind underlying any cultural and personal mentality.

Occult tradition tells us that all cyclic manifestations of the human mind have had a primordial revelatory Source. It speaks of ancient books made of especially treated papyrus leaves and conveying through symbols the archetypal processes at the root of all earthly existence (see Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine). Such volumes, said to remain in the possession of certain Adepts, constitute the "exteriorization" of archetypal knowledge and wisdom. They contain the "seed-ideas" from which the human mind grows, cyclically producing cultures of various types.

This fourth stage symbol evokes for us the "technique" by means of which the human mind can uncover the foundations of its nature and acquire what might be called SEED-KNOWLEDGE, the knowledge of the structure of cyclic and cosmic manifestations of life on this planet."


.well, that is interesting...as each person has a point of Innocence... a weakness...a debility as it is...it is most intriguing to fathom what Jesus/Yeshuas most likely had been.
This phrase "Seed Knowledge" is exactly the overall tenor of the birth chart of Rudhyar himself...in fact the very term and appropriate symbology is in a couple of significant degrees in Danes chart.
Thinking about it I can see plausibility here. Yeshua was always focused on the 'Above' ..The Divine...the Macro...not he Meso so much...what 'seed knowledge' man can access and to what purpose it serves would probably be of little interest to Yeshua...he was all about 'awakening' people...bringing them to awareness and awareness and understanding of Divine seeds of knowledge...he need no tools of divination,,,amulets for protection or healing...no sigils or incantations as He could already portend, protect, heal, manifest, trans-mutate...etc.

interestingly President Obamas is the 28th of Sag and that degree is the Part ofr Tragedy or Fatality for Yeshua [Asc. + Saturn - Sun] it is about an Old Covered Bridge across a beautiful stream and represents an 'intercessor' to 'The Other Side"...and Rudhyars keywords for the symbology and degree is "The Beautiful Necessity"...and it is the Beautiful Necessity of Yeshuas life that he had to die physically, a "Fatality", that had to be in order for Him to become that "Covered Bridge", [a protective intercessor] across the 'stream', to "The Beyond".
This along with Obamas Part of Imprisonment being the 19th of Pisces [it is symbolically 'that' which is kept from our approaching it...we are 'imprisoned from it'...and the 19th of Pisces being "The master Instructing the Discipile"...well, It certainly has given me cause to consider his Islamic upbringing and the question of His current spiritual orientation....and, of further support of this is that renowned singer and noted member of the Jewish faith, Amy Winehouse also has the same Part of Imprisonment...the 19th of Pisces...co-incidence?...in all probability...but, as per my track record of looking in the right places at the right time with the right question[s] these past 11 years...I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts it isn't.
EL&L DM [Eternal Light and Love...no greater gift could one receive or give...]

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

The Part of Destiny:

...the formula for which is ..M.C. + Sun - Moon


...what my proposed natal chart of Yeshua/Jesus produces is 13* Capricorn 14'...that is the 14th degree of Capricorn....and....

[from Rudhyar's book "An Astrological Mandala"]

"
(CAPRICORN 14): AN ANCIENT BAS-RELIEF CARVED IN GRANITE REMAINS A WITNESS TO A LONG-FORGOTTEN CULTURE.

KEYNOTE: The will to unearth, in our culture as well as in any culture, what has permanent value, and to let go of nonessentials.

At a time when in nearly every land men are questioning and challenging the validity of traditional beliefs and customary attitudes, it becomes necessary to separate permanent values and great principles or symbols from the many individual habits and the socio-political developments which more often than not have perverted or even negated the original ideals of the culture. We must strive to free these ideals from the wild growth of personal and class selfishness, from the greed and ambition so prevalent in human nature, and learn to appreciate the excellence of what is the immortal seed-foundation, as well as the spiritual harvest, of any culture — and by extension of every sustained and complete work produced by a man's indomitable effort to achieve creative perfection.

In this fourth stage symbol we are shown the procedure which enables us to gain a deep and thorough appreciation of socio-cultural processes in their most enduring forms. What is needed is a penetrating and courageous insight founded upon a valid HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE. This applies to the past of an individual's life as well as to the history of a nation or a group. "