Thrasyllus-Nechepso Aphesis

[Rumen_Kolev]

Regards to everyone !

I am researching APHESIS id est the PRIMARY DIRECTIONS (PD) for long long years already, but also for the last 10-15 years- History of Astrology- from the Pre-History to the Renaissance- Babylonian, Greek, Arab and Medieval.
Recently combining both fields- the super-mathematical PD field with the super-language-dependent History of Astrology has been an exciting adventure.

Some time ago I asked myself a good question:
Who was the first to talk about the PRIMARY DIRECTIONS ?
SO far I came to Thrasyllus (42 BC - 37 AD) with a firm textual evidence.
But was there someone before him ? The King ? (Nechepso)
I do not have the book with his fragments gathered by E. Riess .

Then I remembered James Holden and what he wrote on page 33 footnote of his History of Horoscopic Astrology suggesting that the PD '...go back probably to Nechepso...'.
I wrote him an email and got an answer.

Here they are:


Email by me to Holden
=======================================
Dear James,

Here is RUmen Kolev.
We have been in touch long years ago in connection with my research into the Primary Directions.

Recently I started researching the Greek authors.
I asked myself the question who was the first to talk about the PD.

I found a passage by Thrassylus (quoted by Porphyry) and this is the oldest author so far found by me.

I read in your book that the PD go back to Nechepso-Petosiris.

But I cannot find where is quoted the King talking about PD.
Can you tell me where is the exact place?

=====================================================


Answer of James Holden

----------------
Dear Mr. Kolev,

It is nice to hear from you again. I hope that everything is going well
for you.

In my opinion, Ptolemy was probably the first of the Classical
astrological writers to give any instructions on what we call Primary
Directions. He set forth Placidus Primaries in Book 3 of his 'Tetrabiblos'.

I have not seen anything like that before his time. And I think the
reason is that none of the earlier astrologers would have known how to
calculate them. Astrology is basically a word science! By that I mean that
astrologers in general are not skilled in mathematics. (The same thing is
true of psychologists and lawyers.) And that was even more true in the
Classical Period. Ptolemy understood mathematical astronomy, so he could see
how matching appearances in the sky mathematically might be astrologically
significant. But I doubt that any of the earlier astrologers had that kind
of knowledge. And we must remember that his books did not become available
to the public until around 300 A.D. So far as we know there were no books
with astronomical tables available to the public before then. (There may
have been such books, but no trace of them has come down to us.)

Some earlier astrologers progressed the ASC degree to terms and to
conjunctions or aspects of the Planets using 1 degree to a year. (But they
paid no attention to the latitude of the Planets.) I think that was as close
as they ever got to Primary Directions.

Best regards,

James Holden

================================================================

[Axel_Harvey]

Hello Rumen!

This is a good topic. What is the textual evidence regarding the use of PDs by Thrasyllus? He seems to have been an interesting character.

Axel

[Rumen_Kolev]

The evidence is found in Porphyry's 'Introduction to Ptolemy'.
CCAG (Catalogus COdicum Astrologorum Graecorum) volume 5 part 4, page 203
In the chapter titled 'Peri aktinobolias' (Concerning the aspects).
Aktino-bolias = rays-throwing
Here Porphyry defines the ray-casting (aktinobolias) as an aspect by a planet thrown in the direction of the 24-hour rotation id est against the order of the zodiac signs.
Planet in Aries, he says, throws rays (of square) to Capricorn.
Porphyry further describes the system of PD of Thrasyllos.
He directed aspects (and planets) to the ascendant and also to the house-ruler of the Moon in some special cases!
We can infer that he directed also to the Moon.
How?
Most probably by oblique ascensions.

But my question about
WHO WAS the FIRST to talk about Primary Directions remains.
SO far THE CHAMPION is THRASYLLOS.

In Babylon they had tables with the rising times of the signs, I think counting on my memory only, in around 500 BC!
This was enough to do what did later Thrasyllos.

[Scott_Silverman]

Hey Rumen (and welcome Axel- I have enjoyed your posts on another forum)...has anybody translated Porphyry's commentary (the one you referenced- on Ptolemy) into english? I know there's an initial- and expensive- vol 1 of a modern translation of Porphyry's commentary on Timaeus into english at last!

There is way too much to know out there <grin>....tell me more about your suspicion that PD were also done in regard to Selene...you were in another post -whether on ACT or elsewhere, I cannot recall-referring to circumambulations through the bounds as PD as well?

That is very interesting that PD were done to the house ruler of the Moon...

[Rumen_Kolev]

has anybody translated Porphyry's commentary (the one you referenced- on Ptolemy) into english? ...

Well, I do not think so.
If Schmidt did not translate it then no-one would.
In the next volume 2 of my 'GREEK and ARAB ASTROLOGY' I plan to translate the section by Porphyry which is on the Epikratetor, Oikodespotes and Kurios.
This is an eye-openning!
Actually Porphyry as a whole is an eye-openning author!

He seemed to have been a very sincere seeker possessing high degree of mystical knowledge.
He has made the connection between Astrology and the Spiritual Mystical Teachings of the day.
SOmething that either no-one else has ever made (after Enmeduranki) or if yes, then never written a single gloss !

Porphyry actually described the system of Thrasyllus for calculatig the 'killig' direction.
In the sign of the ascendant Thrasyllus said that only rays-throwing squares and oppositions can kill (right aspects).
In the next sign, both, right and left squares and oppositions can kill.

(Squares and oppositions of whom ? He does not say. Probably of Mars and Saturn.)

Then he said that if the Moon is found in the sign where she happens to be together with the ruler of that sign or this ruler is in opposition to her, then the directions (aphesis) should be done through that ruler.
He gives example with the Moon in Saggitarius and Jupiter also there or in Gemini.
Then the aphesis should be done through Jupiter!
He does not say more, but
what he said implies that if this was not the case then the aphesis should be done through the Moon.

The circumambulation is, of course, nothing but Primary Directions of the ASC through the terms (bounds).
Alghebutar among the Arabs.