Birth Chart of Jesus?

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

[Greetings. I've touched on this subject in other threads here in the Sabian section of this forum. This is an excerpt from a book I have out on this subject. "A Template for the Time. The Astrological Birth Chart of Jesus." TGS Publishing, Frankston, Texas.
I utilized the day the great American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, gave as the correct birth date and combined that with what I had learned concerning proclivities/talents bestowed by a "Casimi" conj. of Pluto and an Asc. and Dane Rudhyars theories and technique.
I'm re-posting here from my thread at astrologyweekly.com. There are many posts' in conjunction with this theory in my Arabic Parts thread here in the Sabian section...I figure someome here might like a more thorough explanation as to why I believe in my theoretical chart...and besides, it's that time of year when this subject gets rolling!]


Greetings. I'm not supposed to do this as per the contract with my publisher...but I'm going to do it anyways...here are excerpts from my book, "A Template for the Time"...from chapter two.

...Let me state again, that right after ascertaining and interpreting Johns' chart. I reread part Three, Chapter 2, "The Cross and the Star", of Rudhyars' book "An Astrological Mandalla", and for the first time in the 20 plus years I have possessed that book, I understood it, thanks to Johns' chart. As Rudhyar goes on to explain in this part of his book. The cross, that is the axis, formed by the horizon and the meridian of one's birth chart, create four points, and these four points, he interprets, are the "WHAT", "WHERE-TO", "HOW" and "WHY" of one's being. I would like to add here that as for, "WHERE-TO", Rudhyar also goes on to infer that an axis of perfect symmetry, i.e., 90° between all four axis points, that include the four points of the Zodiac, Aries, Libra, Cancer and Capricorn, all in the first degree, would have been involved in the birth chart of Yeshua of Nazareth. Rudhyar also infers that he believed the first degree of Aries to be the Ascendent, the "WHAT" of Yeshuas' birth chart and the first degree of Libra to be the Descendent, the "WHERE-TO" of the birth chart. With that proposal, the first degree of Cancer is the infered Nadir, the "HOW", and the first degree of Capricorn is thus assigned to the Mid-Haven, the "WHY" of Yeshuas' birth chart. I will not cover his explanation of "The Star". You are invited to read this chapter of Rudhyars' book and get this information for yourself as it is not immediately pertinent to the material I'm presenting.

Aries 1°, "A Woman Just Risen From The Sea, A Seal Is Embracing Her. Keynote: Emergence of new forms and of the potentiality of consciousness. This is the first of the 360 phases of a universal and multilevel cyclic process which aims at the actualization of a particular set of potentialities. These potentialities in the Sabian symbols, refer to the development of man's individualized consciousness-the consciousness of being an individual person with a place and function [a 'destiny'] in the planetary organism of the Earth, and in a particular type of human society and culture."

"To be individually conscious means to emerge out of the sea of generic and collective consciousness-which to the emerged mind appears to be unconsciousness. Such an emergence is the primary event. It is the result of some basic action: a leaving behind an emerging from a womb or matrix here, symbolized by the sea."

"Such an action is not to be considered a powerful, positive statement of individual being. In the beginning is the Act; but it is often an imperceptible, insecure act. The small tender germ out of the seed does not loudly proclaim its existence. It has to pierce through the crust of the soil still covered with the remains of the past. It is all potentiality and a minimum of actual presence."

"In the symbol therefore, the emergent entity is a Woman; symbolically speaking, a form of existence still close to the unconscious depths of generic biological nature, filled with the desire to be rather than self assertion. The woman is seen embraced by a seal because the seal is a mammal which once had experienced a biological, evolutionary but relatively unconscious emergence, yet which retraced its steps and 'returned to the womb' of the sea. The seal, therefore, represents a regressive step. It embraces the Woman who has emerged, because every emergent process at first is susceptible to failure. This process is indeed surrounded by the memory, the ghosts of past failures during previous cycles. The impulse upward is held back by regressive fear or insecurity; the issue of the conflict depends on the relative strength of the future-ward and the past-ward forces."

"The possibility of success, and that of failure is implied throughout the entire process of actualization. Every release of potentiality contains this two-fold possibility. It inevitably opens up to two paths, one leads to 'perfection' in consciousness, the other to 'disintegration'-the return to the undifferentiated state, [the state of humus, manure, cosmic dust- i.e. to the symbolic 'great Waters of space', to chaos]."

"This symbol characterizes the first of five stages which are repeated at three levels. This stage represents the initial statement, or theme, of the five-fold series which refers to the first level: IMPULSE TO BE."
[I must comment here that Rudhyar divided the 360 degrees/symbols into four "Acts"; each "Act"

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

...and more...

consisting of six "Scenes"; each "Scene" consisting of three "Levels"; each "Level consisting of five "Phases" or degrees. I am not going to try to explain this method of his as it doesn't pertain to the presentation I am giving in this book. I encourage anyone that would like to know more on Rudhyars system to investigate it further. I am quoting the entire text for each Sabian Symbol from the book of Rudhyar. This is necessary for continuity of the keypoints of understanding in Rudhyars summations on the Symbols and I would suggest ignoring the text when it refers to this process of divisional nomenclature as it will only confuse those of you little versed in Astrology or the Sabian Symbols.]

This Symbol should be easily enough understood by all, it is the most basic symbolic representation of 'biological life' in general to be found among the Sabian Symbols. It represents a newly birthed and conscious life form, and a natural evolution and growth of that form as is seen in all life forms here on Earth."

Libra 1° "In A Collection Of Perfect Specimens Of Many Biological Forms, A Butterfly Displays The Beauty Of Its Wings, Its Body Impaled By A Fine Dart. Keynote: The immortal archetypal reality that a perfect and dedicated life reveals. Just as the symbol for Aries 1° evoked the keynote of the entire first half of the cycle i.e. differentiation out of the undifferentiated 'Ocean of potentiality', this symbol for Libra 1* reveals to the intuitive consciousness the essential character of the second hemicycle. In the yearly cycle, we have reached the fall equinox. The symbolic time of bringing in the harvest in preparation for winter. It is the time consecrated to the seed, just as the spring equinox is consecrated to the germ, the new rise of life, which in-forms the growth of individual organisms."

"At this autumnal point, the drive towards individualization and self-assertion has lost much of its momentum, while a new trend is successfully and dynamically challenging its hegemony-the trend toward the formation of collectivities of individuals. But this new trend can be misunderstood if seen only superficially as the mere gathering together of individual persons. The process has a much deeper meaning, and indeed an inner source of power, for what is at stake is not merely an aggregation of separate units [simple or already complex, as is in the case of 'families']. At the core of this 'coming together', the 'descent' or externalization of archetypal realities is gradually occurring. At the Libra stage, these archetypal realities are 'Forms'; at the Scorpio stage they will be 'Powers'. The symbol for this degree of the fall equinox thus describes a 'perfect form' the result of the metamorphosis of a 'worm' into butterfly, a process, the symbolism of which has so often been used to indicate to man the possibility of his being transformed into 'more-than-man', the transhuman being, the true Initiate, the Adept, the Perfect. The perfect butterfly is impaled by a fine dart; the symbol of the 'dart of wisdom' was used in Mark Jones' mimeographed course, while the original notation of what the clairvoyant had seen indicated 'a butterfly made perfect by a dart through it', suggesting a process of perfection through sacrifice."

"As I see it, the dart can hardly be said to have made the butterfly perfect, but it keeps it perfect by killing the living organism. The impaled butterfly is preserved by the dart which 'fixes' it in perfection for a whole cycle, i.e. it makes an archetype of it. By thus escaping the normal process of dying and decay, the butterfly form [the 'perfection'] is kept. It is kept in the mystical, Shamballa, where it is said that the Pattern of Man is kept, just as the perfect bar for measuring exactly one meter is [or was] kept in a crypt in Paris, where the metric system was originally devised."

"The perfect butterfly thus represents the outcome of the process of occult discipleship symbolized by the sign Virgo. From then on, a new process begins, that of collectivization; at the very core of that new process in the perfect Form of Man must remain as a standard of value if this process is to be valid and meaningful."

"This is the first statement in the thirteenth scene of the great ritual drama. It is an actional phase because in it the perfection of individual activity is revealed and immortalized. This is the symbolical Transfiguration; at the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus the Son of Man was 'impaled' by the ray of the Divine Light, making him a Son of God. It was at this very moment that he learned of the Crucifixion awaiting him.Thus the merely human individual is [Rudhyars' keywords] MADE SACRED becoming the pure embodiment of an archetype."

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

...and more...


At this point in this book I will suspend explaining the chart axis as I would like to discuss Sabian symbols in general. We will resume with the explanation of the chart axis of Yeshua momentarily.

It has been traditionally accepted by astrologers that the evolutionary process represented by the 360 degrees of the Zodiac and/or Sabian symbols begins with the first degree of Aries, the emerging life form, and completes the cycle of 360 stages of transformation with the 30th degree of Pisces. The 30th degree of Pisces' symbol is: " A Majestic Rock Formation Resembling A Face Is Idealized By A Boy Who Takes It As His Ideal Of Greatness, And As He Grows Up, Begins To Look Like It." Rudhyars' Keynote on this symbol: "The power of clearly visualized ideals to mold the life of the visualizer." Rudhyars' summation on this symbol: "This is the last stage of the last scene of the great ritual play of cyclic transformations. It brings to us a realization of the power of archetypes as factors conditioning life processes. Thus we could use as a final Keyword: ARCHETYPALIZATION."

Again, I would like to remind you, the reader that in Rudhyars' book on the Sabian symbols, he infers that this first degree of Aries would be found to be the ascendant on the birth chart of Jesus. Rudhyar thus states that the "WHAT" of the birth chart would be an emerging life form, and the "WHERE-TO" [the first degree of Libra] would be the perfect form of man.

If one were to meditate on this process for a moment and picture an emerging biological life form [as represented by the Sabian Symbol for the first degree of Aries] progressing through the cyclic process of completing the following 359 degrees of the Zodiac, beoming what is symbolically represented by the 30th degree of Pisces. One understands that, what is represented by, this process is one of becoming more immersed in materiality, represented by the rock face in the symbol for the last degree of Pisces.

But what actually occurred, and the actual template of being, that Jesus was given, is the opposite. His "WHAT" is the perfect form of man and his "WHERE-TO" the next emerging life form. A higher life form. The next step in spiritual evolution. I believe that there is another process through the Sabian symbols that begins with the first degree of Libra and culminates with the thirtieth degree of Virgo. The symbol for, which is "Totally Intent Upon Completing An Immediate Task, A Man Is Deaf To Any Allurement." Rudhyars' Keynote: "The total concentration required for reaching any spiritual goal." Rudhyars' summation: "This is the culminating step, the decision that results from a myriad of small choices. Still a shadow of hesitation can remain. Attention may be distracted from the Now by a voice from the past, glamorizing some old memory. The outer doors of perception and thought must be closed, so the soul can complete its [Rudhyars' keywords] CONQUEST OF ILLUSION."

Thus there are two ways of proceeding through the Sabian symbols, the Zodiac, [and maybe more] one beginning with the first degree of Aries and ending with the last degree of Pisces, becoming more immersed in the material, in Maya. The other process begins with the first degree of Libra, and ends with the last degree of Virgo and thus, freeing oneself from the illusion, from materiality, from Maya, 'THE ILLUSION'. As this chart, I propose is the correct birth chart for Yeshua, has the Ascendant conjunct the first degree of Libra, and the Moon conjunct the last degree of Virgo, this possibilly demonstrates that he was here as the perfect form of man, becoming the next higher evolved life form, and conquering the illusion of Maya. This could possibly also be another way of understanding and putting into context his statement. " I am the first and the last." The first degree of Libra, [The perfect form of man], and the last degree of Virgo [the conquest of illusion {Maya}].

Now to get back to the birth chart of Yeshua. The other half of the birth chart axis, the line created by the Mid-Haven and the Nadir, the "HOW" and "WHY" of the birth chart was proposed, by Rudhyar, to consist of the first degree of Cancer and the first degree of Capricorn. Rudhyar, in his book "An Astrological Mandalla" infers Cancer 1° is the degree of the Zodiac that is the Nadir of the birth chart of Jesus, the "HOW" of Jesus' life mission. The description for the first degree of Cancer is as follows [from Rudhyars' book]: "On A Ship, The Sailors Lower An Old Flag And Raise A New One. Keynote: A radical change of allegiance exteriorized in a symbolical act: a point of no return."

"We have now reached a square [90-degree angle] to the beginning of the cyclic process. This is a moment of crisis, a sharp turning point. In the zodiacal cycle, at the summer solstice the northward

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

...and it continues...

motion of the Sun [in 'declination'] stops; the Sun rises and sets as far north of exact east and west as it can during the year-cycle. Its motion is now reversed. Slowly the sunset points move southward on the western horizon, and the length of the day decreases. In the lunation cycle [from New Moon to New Moon] this is the First Quarter phase. On the 'ship' which symbolizes the ego-consciousness floating, as it were, on the sea of the vast Unconscious, the individualized will makes a basic decision. The dominant Yang force allows the Yin force to begin its six-month long rise to power. The 'collective' will gradually overcomes the 'individual', and at the end the state will overpower the person. Now, however, the individual person enjoys his most glorious hour; he exults in his ability to make a 'free decision' -i.e. to act as an individual who selects his life goal and his allegiance."

"This is the first stage in the nineteenth five-fold series of degree symbols. In a decisive act, heavy with consequences, the symbolic college youth might realize that he should bring to an end his quest for the ideal companion and enter into matrimony. He assents to the possibility of progeny, of home responsibility. His consciousness accepts a process of fundamental [Rudhyars' keyword] REORIENTATION implying the stabilization of his energies."

Rudhyar was thus proposing that the "HOW" of Jesus' life mission would be accomplished by becoming the new symbol of allegiance. It's interesting to note that Rudhyar remarked this as "a point of no return", [little did he know or quite possibly maybe he did] that the arrangement would be reversed, i.e. the Mid-Haven ["WHY"] rather than the Nadir ["HOW"] would be the placement of this degree of the Zodiac, and it was very much "a point of no return" in that this is the "WHY" of Yeshuas' life mission.

For the Mid-Haven Rudhyar proposed the first degree of Capricorn [from Rudhyars' book]. " An Indian Chief Claims Power From The Assembled Tribe. Keynote: The power and responsibility implied in any claim for leadership. The religious ideal implied in the preceding symbol has now materialized or crystallized into sheer power-the power to leave the community and to ensure its welfare or even its physical survival. The energies released through group cooperation [Libra], deepened and emotionally experienced as forces of great potency [Scorpio], and given meaning and conscious purpose [Sagittarius] are now stabilized and hierarchized. The power of the group is turned into a measurable and carefully managed 'capital'. The words 'chief' and 'capital' come from the same Latin word, caput, meaning 'head'. A time comes in many lives when the individual finds himself placed in a situation that allows him to assume power over his comrades, however limited this power may be. Is he ready to do this effectively and responsibly? This is the supreme test of man in society. It complements its polar opposite, [summer solstice degree], which refers to the acceptance by the individual of a new kind of allegiance as a foundation for the integration of his mature personality. Such a foundation may, but need not, refer to establishing a home."

"This represents the first stage in a five-fold process-the fifty-fifth sequence of five symbols. It refers to the capacity latent in every individual to claim and assume [Rudhyars' keyword] AUTHORITY in a vital group-situation."

Thus Rudhyar proposed, even though he may have thought differently privately, that the axis of Jesus's birth chart would show his "WHO" to be just another life form emerging into this world [i.e. Aries 1*], His "WHERE-TO", i.e. what he was to become, the perfect form of man [i.e. Libra 1*]. The true birth chart that has been produced however shows, as Cayce and many other spiritual teachers have taught, that Jesus was born the perfect form of man, and through his life by example, he demonstrated the path to the next step in spiritual/physical evolution, a higher, more spiritually evolved life form. I also believe that when Pluto [the planet of "Transformation"] is found exactly conjunct the ascendant, transformation [i.e. the transition from "WHAT" to "WHERE-TO"] is assured somehow or, at the very least, the catalyst is brought to bear on the individual in question. As for the other half of the axis. It's apparent that Rudhyar proposed that how Jesus was to accomplish his mission, his dharma, was by becoming the new symbol or icon of allegiance represented by, the flag the sailors are raising symbolically, the first degree of Cancer. And as for the "WHY" of Rudhyars' proposed chart for Jesus it was to establish leadership over various groups of belief. [Or the various sects of Judaism, monotheism and or remnant religions that had the Sun prayers at their most ancient core.] Whereas in the true chart, I propose is Yeshuas', this cause and purpose is the reverse. "HOW" he was to accomplish his dharma was by becoming the leader over
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[David_Mastrogiovanni]

the various sects of the belief. And "WHY" was to become the new figurehead, the new flag of allegiance, and as Rudhyar said, it is/was a "point of no return".

As I stated in the previous chapter. I had been enlightened to the meaning of this cross configuration, as it was proposed by Rudhyar, only for a few months when I was given the opportunity for unlimited time on a computer, by my good friend Rick. Rick has a wireless laptop computer and he brought it to my hotel room in the old Folsom Hotel. There was/is a wi-fi zone that has free acess that the Folsom Hotel is within. [Incidently, for those who like to keep score. I was living in room #13 at the hotel during this entire process which happens to be 40 steps up from the street. I provide this information to you numerologists as the numbers 13 and 40 are very significant in your system of divine interpretation. Also, for the record, the date of discovery was 11/7/2004.] We dialed in various times, until we had Pluto firmly on the Ascendant for the date given by Edgar Cayce. When we arrived at 5:23 p.m., with Pluto, firmly on the ascendant, I then looked at the four degrees of the Zodiac on the axis of the chart we had just produced and was stunned, [and that emotion turned into joy and then almost deliriously so, as I realized what I was looking at] to find it to be the same four degrees of the Zodiac, predicted by Rudhyar, that would be found on the birth chart of Yeshua a.k.a. Jesus Christ. The fact that this axis was reversed was of little consequence and, in fact, was all the more profound in that arrangement [as I stated earlier in this book] with the first degree of Libra as the ascendant. Thus certifying in fact, he was born in perfect form. A result, possibly only produced by an immaculate conception. I recommend that you, the reader, make reference to the transcribed readings of Edgar Cayce and read what he had to say about the Immaculate Conception and how and why it was achieved.

The 12th House cusp. The 12th House cusp, as John's chart had shown me represents the answer to the worlds' problems as that person, who's chart it is, will see it and communicate it to the world. The 12th House cusp for this chart is 3° Virgo, 14 minutes, the fourth degree of Virgo, the symbol for which "Black and White Children Play Together Happily". Rudhyars' keyword for the symbol is "Brotherhood". Again of the 360 symbols, none could be more appropriate for what Yeshuas' consistent answer was in reference to be worlds' problems.

...that's all I'm going to give out from the book...I'm sorry but I'm risking a lawsuit as it is!...

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

I recieved this e-mail from the world reknowned Sabian Astrologer, Lynda Hill, last year...to whom I am most grateful for her words and encouragement...

...anyways...here's Her e-mail to me...


On Mon, 9/1/08, Lynda Hill <lyndah@bigpond.com> wrote:
From: Lynda Hill <lyndah@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Pluto conj. Galatic Center
To: piercethevale@yahoo.com
Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 5:24 PM

Hi David
Apologies for not replying to your emails, I do like to keep up with folks but I’ve had enormous internet and phone problems stretching back 2 and a half months. I’m only just now falling into step and catching up.

The thing with you and the chart of Jesus is amazing – but I must say that what you’re experiencing is what happens when we find a crack (or a niche) in the hologram – it all becomes amazingly wonderful.
BTW, I worked with playing cards with the Sabians for the first several years. Anything works actually (as you probably know and don’t need me to tell you!! J ) as long as there’s a system!

Gotta go, but do know that I appreciate your emails and enjoy being in touch.
Oh, the thing with researching Elsie’s life – I only included snippets in that interview. One amazing thing is that Elsie lived with Frank Baxter in San Diego and I wanted to change my name to Baxter when I was 9/10/11 as my mother married a man named Baxter and I was the only one in the family who wasn’t a Baxter. There’s more…. It goes on and on…. there’s that hologram!
Lynda

...note; Lynda and I love to share stories of 'sychronicity' together...as per why she includes the "Baxter" story...David M.

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[David_Mastrogiovanni]

...and it may seem silly...but...if you turn the chart 90 degrees so that the Desc. is at the 12 o'clock position the computer generated chart aspects look very much like the "Masonic Seal"...it's very curious!

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

Greetings. Well, I find it very intriguing and interesting that Jupiter will be conj. the Part of Fortune [the 19th degree of Pisces] for my proposed chart for Jesus/Yeshua this Sunday...Easter Sunday [and also conj. my Part Of Inheritance/Legacy]...the N.Node at this time will be in the 17th of Cap...the Sabian Symbol for [defined as] "The Release from Social Inhibitions"

...I can only hope that this means a resurgence in understanding the 'Teachings', represented by the Symbol for the 19th of Pisces...a growth in the recognition and acceptance...[and possibly acceptance of this birth data is near at hand...time will tell...] God and Man willing ...ptv

pps...also of, pointed, interest is that Saturn will be in the 1st degree of Libra..."The Perfect Form of Man"...conj. Pluto, Asc. & Moon in the proposed natal chart...and...Chiron will be in the 30th degree of Aquarius which happens to be the degree of the Zodiac for the Part of Servant and Service for the above chart...A MOST SIGNIFICANT SYMBOLOGY IN THE 30TH OF AQUARIUS...

...and another ps...I believe that is a 'Yod' with the Saturn/Uranus opp ...hmmm...

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

I would like to state for public record that I erred in my book and I would like to correct it for the record.
I erred in calling the birth of Jesus/Yeshua of Nazareth the "Immaculate Conception".
I was not raised Catholic...and in fact did not get much elucidation/instruction in Christain/Catholic theology in my life.
The Immaculate Conception as I have been informed is only in ref. to the birth of Mary....Jesus' mother...as she was also born of Virgin birth by Ann. The conception and birth of Jesus/Yeshua is know as the "Annunciation"...I apologize for my lack of knowledge and understanding of this issue...although I have found out that I am hardly alone in this mis-conception/understanding as it apparently is a common one and more the rule than the exception to associate the two terms in-appropriately.
Thank you, Dave Mastry aka David Mastrogiovanni

[David_Mastrogiovanni]

[The following, from a thread of mine at astrologyweekly.com, is on a technique of the 'Esoteric School of Astrology' that is derived from Theosophist' philosophy that only just became revealed to me in the last couple of days.
Briefly: The belief that the 'Evolutionary' interpretation of sequential procession through the degrees of the Zodiac is reverse of what is of general consensus...i.e. Aries 1* to Pisces 30*.] That unfoldment of ones 'Spiritual' or 'Evolutionary' path is to be understood from the inversion of this view point ...i.e. that the interpretation should commence from Virgo 30* and proceed in the opposite direction to Libra 1*. This new understanding of mine has led to a slight but very significant development as far as interpreting the chart axis of my proposed chart by Sabian analysis...and all charts.]

"...as we are inverting charts the Asc. and Desc. are still the "WHO" and "WHERE-TO" respectively but now what the M.C. becomes is "HOW" and the I.C. "WHY". As we are now going clockwise around the chart in reading the progression/procession...as "HOW" is indicating how the Asc. is going to evolve into the Desc. "HOW" must come between "WHO" and "WHERE-TO" in the cycle. And it makes more sense to have "HOW" at the M.C. as the Mid Haven indicates what you do for a career in the mundane sense.
What this does to the chart I got for the man from Nazareth is make the symbology all the more appropriate. The raising of a new flag is representative of His being the model Archetype that many people chose as the object of their allegiance....the new Allegiance.Rudhyar mentioned in his definition for this symbol that it also represented [or was in fact] "A dangerous point of no return." That's what did result. To become that "Flag" He had to undergo what he did.
It was after His life that the many different sects and beliefs arose to see Him as "The Chief" over them all. As He never had that kind of recognized authority during His life... only after. It was, pretty much. just His own sect the Essenes, that gave Him any respect prior to his death.
...I'm currently checking out how the Arabic Parts are going to be determined...see what comes up...it should be interesting.
This system still reads aspects the same except it would recognize a different assignation of house rulerships...the 1st house is now Ruled by Mercury...
Like I said...it needs to be studied and understood...I never did like the idea that Mars was the natural Asc. ...too warlike a beginning to become anything other that difficult to get along with. This is now saying 'I Analyze" instead of "I Am"...sounds like a better attitude at the beginning of going out into the world and life."

...and to this date it appears that one, even though he or she may be taking an 'Evolutionary' solution to their life still approaches those areas of ones life, that are indicated by the various Arabic Parts/Lots, symbolically as indicated by the Sabians in the "Involutionary" chart. There is no indication yet that any Part so derived from an Evolutionary standpoint should be considered in the same respect...Except for the Part of Fortune and the Part of Soul...as those do indicate at least an interpretive understanding symbolically at this time but not necessarily a course of action symbolically.

I hope I clarified my take on this and what I perceive to understand to be correct as regarding this 'Esoteric' theory/practice ...especially that, if correct , it doesn't change my view that this proposed chart for Jesus/Yeshua is most likely valid...but rather. actually, makes it all the more so.


...[and in addition...from the aforementioned web-site... as it is of use here in this forums thread also...]

Since I produced my proposed birth chart for Jesus/Yeshua [of which I and a number of people are throughly convinced of being valid.] I have been under the impression He was born in perfect form and that the result of the process concluded by his life was the conquest of illusion. Now it's obviously the other way around.
As my chart has the Moon at the 30th degree of Virgo and Pluto [Planet of Transformation] at the 1st of Libra [with His Asc. which might be in fact wedged between the two.] it jibes with what I've been taught by my Gurus of Oriental origin, specifically, of the Sanatan Dharm...i.e. 'Hinduism' ...with my apologies to those offended by the term 'Hindu'. That all beings born into this world must make a journey to achieve perfection. [The legend/history of Krishna is that He manifested and wasn't born is explanation as to Krishna being perfection incarnate from the get-go...Rama having been born is another matter...but, they are both valid Archetypes for those that follow that path. And as such I am not stating that Jesus/Yeshua is any less valid an Archetype...just that he has been slightly mis-represented...and I know that those of the Jewish faith will certainly agree with me on that point...i.e. 'mis-represented']

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Each year at this time I remind myself that this is the traditional time of the observance and celebration of Jesus' birth. I too enjoy participating in the festivities and traditional expressions, rituals etc. that go along with the season. I also refrain, each year, from stimulating this particular thread subject on any forum...although this immediate development made me make an exception.
Thus, that being said, I apologize for the intrusion this year. I will answer any further comments or queries that are posted here, quite happily, next year. I wish all my Christian friends and the rest of you that take part in any observances or festivities this 'Holiday Season' a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. David
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