The astrology of time

[Bruce_Scofield]

I see Mesoamerican astrology as a system that never got to reach its full potential - and my work has been to piece together what's left and try to move toward where it might have gone. It's more than day-signs and night lords - it seems to be a method in which the time periods of synodic cycles are divided into pieces, each of which has a symbolic meaning. This is similar to the spatial division of the ecliptic into 12 sections rich with symbolism. But this discussion could go in any number of directions and I'll just list a few possibilities: The day-signs and trecena, the Venus cycle, the Long Count and 2012, the night lords, the cycles of years, the problem of when the day begins, symbolism in the codices, etc. Or does someone have any suggestions?

[Michael Erlewine]

Dear Bruce,

Sounds great. If you have time what would probably help would be to give a short introduction to the topics that make up Mesoamerican astrology, so that dummies like me in this subject will see what might be interesting to ask for more about.

Thanks,

Michael Erlewine

[Bruce_Scofield]

Mesoamerican astrology seems to be of little interest to the astrological community, probably because it is different and in a state of reconstruction and requires real insight, not just learning from other people's delineations. While there is a horoscopic form that I've proposed and worked on, calculations present some difficulties and currently only one piece of software does it, and in rather a cumbersome way. It does seem to be of much interest to people outside the astrological community, however, but these people are interested in it as a kind of divination or a gateway to the end of the world in 2012. I've got a lot of articles about it on my website www.onereed.com for those who may be interested.

That being said, the topics I mentioned in the first post I think are important and it would be good to get some consensus on a few things like - what exactly are the day-signs, how do they work and when does the day begin for this system? They seem to me (and seem is the best that I or anyone else can say about them as no real studies have been done except for a little one I did many years ago) to be a kind of biorhythm that counts to 20 then starts again. Beginning with the premise that the observations of myself and others confirm the delineations that I've developed and that these day-signs actually work as well as Western astrological signs, my guess is that there is some kind of light-counting cellular function and that this is a means of generating some variation on the individual level. I actually think that's what astrology is really all about - generating minor variations among members of a species which play a short-term role in the process of natural selection.

So what is a day-sign is a great question. The best way to go about answering this question is to first figure out what your day-sign is, and those of others you know, and try to make some sense of it. People trained in astrology will be at an advantage and some have confirmed by observation that the day-sign appears to synthesize the solar and ascendant features of the natal chart - and even dominant planets.

[Gary_Caton]

Hi Bruce,

I would be very interested to hear more about the cycle of Venus, as it was the sun-venus conjunction i saw in my dream which led me to astrology. it was a very long time before i had any idea what this dream meant (other than that i figured out i saw a transit alignment "psychically")

as far as the "when does the day begin" problem, i think it is clear that for medieval astrologers this was at sunrise -because even though i was born wednesday for them i was born on a mars day because it was not yet sunrise (3:06 am on 4-10-68)

that said, if i calculate my day sign for the day before my birth i get Reed -which to my limited understanding reads something like Libra/Cancer (I am aries/virgo) -though maybe I can see some of my Aquarius asc because it talks about inflexible views

however, the day sign of my birthdate is jaguar (ocelot). maybe it is just wishful thinking but this sounds more like me i think...love of earth and magic and the feminine (mars in taurus) ... i have a degree in counseling and worked as a counselor...

so, maybe the mayans were sophisticated enough to have the day begin as the sun moves up from the nadir? they certainly had plenty of sophistication elsewhere. dunno, but it seems to work in my case.

[Bruce_Scofield]

Hi Gary - After about 15 years thinking about what I seem to be observing, and combining this with the meager information from Spanish reports and the oral tradition, it appears that the shift occurs at or right after sunset. I'm seeking confirmation of this from people with discrimination - its something that would be hard to test, though possible, so for now it comes down to anecdotal evidence.

That being said, a case could be made for sunset as that's when the light cuts out. In many species circadian rhythms are "set" by the onset of darkness, not light. And I do think that these day-signs are a kind of circadian rhythm that runs something in humans that has to do with personality variation - which would certainly serve an evolutionary purpose.

To advance the case we need people to really get the day-signs, then look at cases that fall on either side of sunset and come up with some way of evaluating differences. This is essentially the same as trying to sort out sun signs, and we know how hard that is.

[Gary_Caton]

Thanks Bruce. very interesting. if there is a circadian rhythm in humans that has to do with personality variation -that generates some interesting questions.

first, why 20? is there an organic reason for that #? do we know why there are 20 day signs?

second, if this is serving an evolutionary purpose -wouldn't the signs themselves evolve as some represent better adaptations than others? might not urban technology saturated humans require different personalities than perhaps only 1 kya?

for instance, On 7 January 2008 United States Fish and Wildlife Service Director H. Dale Hall approved an unprecedented decision by the Dumbya Administration to abandon jaguar recovery as a federal goal under the Endangered Species Act. The decision is the first of its kind in the 34-year history of the Endangered Species Act. Some critics of the decision said that the jaguar is being sacrificed for the government's new border fence.

would the jaguars endangered status as a species reflect an evolving pattern in personality? do we still needs shamans? do we still value them? with the world filling up, can they survive as a personality type?

[Bruce_Scofield]

Evolution is biotic potential clipped by the environment. It has nothing to do with any notions of progress. It's an evolutionary advantage to have some variation in offspring to better cope with constantly changing environmental conditions, whether they be climatic, territorial or anthropogenic. I do think astrology measures that tiny variation among members of our species (at least) that is not easily measured genetically - but it may be in there somewhere.

Why 20? I don't know, but I've been thinking about it for a long time. It is the number of digits on a person. It may have something to do with the Moon. If you take a ratio of sidereal months to the year you get 13:1. If gestation is about 260 days, this comes out to 13 x 20. So there may be a counting reason that is useful for predicting when a birth will occur. Maybe its a biorhythm. Some people think the Sun puts out a 20-day pulse.

Why 12?

[Bruce_Scofield]

Just an observation here. Venus is now in the last part of its evening star phase - Xolotl in Aztec astrology and Hesperus in the Greek. According to the Mesoamerican model, this is the time that the gods rule over the actions of men. I've written about this a number of times and have argued that conservatism tends to prevail, or at least have a loud voice at these times. Perhaps the current political situation, where the traditional ways have failed and a new way of doing business needs to be implemented, could be looked on as a screen against which this Venus factor is playing out. Is the Republican "nope" position something that will continue right up to the Inferior conjunction after which many risks will be taken?

[Gary_Caton]

Hi Bruce, I've just watched from my desk as Venus set in the West...

Yes, I believe that we will see much action after Venus rises as Morning star -There are several reasons for this -not the least of which is that she also rose as Morming star in Aries before Mr Obama was born...

I have an article about this coming out in the NCGR Memberletter soon....

What do you make of the fact that Venus only makes visible conjunctions to Mars (two each phase) and Saturn this cycle?

[Bruce_Scofield]

Well - it makes for good skywatching - if you live where you can see the sky. Whether visibilities are astrologically important, I'm not so sure, but I'm looking forward to Venus-Mars coming up in April - it rips into my chart!