Oriental Different for Superior/Inferior Planets?

[Tyrin Price]

My Zoller DMA studies puts forth an idea that the superior planets are oriental when they rise before the Sun while the inferior planets are oriental when they rise after the Sun. This idea doesn't sit well with my previous understanding of the oriental concept in astrology which is simply that a planet rising before the Sun is oriental.

This superior/inferior planet oriental shift concept is difficult for me to fathom. How does this makes sense?

[Juergen Anderlitsch]

Hello Tyrin,

when I first came across Zoller`s description, I was confused too.

What I think is, that he uses the words oriental/occidental in a qualitative sense. In generell, orientality means more vitality, force and also a stronger declination to socially acceptable actions or behavior. As I understand it, this is the case when the superiors are "oriental to the Sun" and the same applies to the inferiors, when they are "occidental to the Sun" - because then the inferiors take on an oriental quality and they are more efficient. This is, what Zoller is speaking about (at least in my opinion).

I hope that helps a bit.

Jürgen

[Estebon Duarte]

The topic of Oriental and Occidental placement for the planets is a tricky one. Most of the traditional authors are not very clear in their descriptions, and even when they are their definitions can be opposite from one another. Zoller's approach (as explained by him to me) is the one he found to work the best and the reasoning behind it is as follows;
Under the above description of Oriental, Inferior planets become visible when leaving the Sun's beams only when they rise after the Sun. If they rose before the Sun the Sun they would enter the Sun's beams by secondary motion and would appear to be overcome by the Sun as the mornings passed. The reverse is true for the Superior planets, who move through the zodiac at a slower pace than the Sun does.
This is a patchy summary of what Zoller explained, but essentially the distinction of oriental vs. occidental has to do with the relation of the planets to the Sun as they appear visibly during their risings and settings with the Sun. Both by primary and secondary motion.
This is the way I understand it anyway.

[Tyrin Price]

essentially the distinction of oriental vs. occidental has to do with the relation of the planets to the Sun as they appear visibly during their risings and settings with the Sun. Both by primary and secondary motion.

I thought it must be something visual and this makes sense. Thanks, Estebon (and Jürgen)!