by Rumen_Kolev on Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:59 am
The older astro tablets fell in disregard 100 years ago and still lay around untouched. (because of the pan-Babylonian argument) This is soon to change!
How is this going to change? There must be very few scholars who can read and interpret the ancient tablets.
van der Waerden in his article on the Zodiac quotes Cyril Fagan!...This is a sure sign of what kind of scholar he was. A true one.
Yes, I saw that. Impressive!!
Therese, I hope you understood what I meant by 'cutting the horn of the Bull'.
The star on the tip of Bull's southern horn will move to around 1:00 degree of Gemini, should we set Aldebaran in 16 deg. Tauri (Spica in 00 Libra).
The zodiac with Spica in 00 Libra will cut also the sting of the Scorpio!
The sting of Scorpio (Shaula) will move to around 1:00 Sagg.
In the ancient Mesopotamian zodiac, Aldebaran = 15 Tauri, both stars: the southern horn of the Bull and the sting of the Scorpio, show the boundaries between the images since these stars are exactly there.
Yes!! And I have done a lot of work with the boundary stars of the sidereal signs. Yes, I know exactly where these stars are, and many others. We are not in ancient Babylon, so let's suppose that bright stars are really meant to visually mark the boundaries of signs (and lunar mansions that India aligned with the zodiac at a later date). Stars at the junction points between zodiac signs wouldn't necessarily have to remain in the sign that has the name of the constellation if they visually marked a sign junction.
Actually, if you want to be specific to the minute, the exact position of Al Hecka (zeta Tauri) is 1 degree 1 minute in the Krishnamurti zodiac. So with the Fagan ayanamsa it would be at 2 minutes of Gemini. But this highlights the possibility that stars may be meant to visually mark the boundaries of sidereal signs and lunar mansions.
I should mention that with the Lahiri ayanamsa which places Spica at 30 Virgo, Aldebaran and Antares will be just under 16 degrees, so will remain at 15 degrees of their signs. (Although technically speaking a degree is completed at 60 minutes of the previous degree. As the second degree begins at precisely one degree, zero minutes of a sign.) This creates problems with the degree symbolism books.
Some years ago I made a diagram of the 12 signs and 27 Indian mansions and marked the closest bright stars to the boundaries of signs and mansions and centers of the mansions. I used the Krishnamurti zodiac, but for research purposes adjustments can be made based on careful research. (I will try to scan the entire zodiac diagram and put it on my web site.)
In the meantime, here are a few of the Krishnamurti star longitudes. The great majority of the longitudes will move further away from sign and mansion cusps and centers with the Fagan ayanamsa. (I know that the Babylonians apparently wanted to keep the primary stars in the signs of the name of their constellations, but this may not be the best zodiac to use today...but that is an area for much research.)Krishnamurti Sign Boundaries and 27 Lunar Mansion Boundaries and Centers
6 deg 39 min, Miarach, beta Andromeda (center of Ashvini in Aries, 6 deg 40 min)
13 deg 54 min, Hamal, alpha Aries (boundary of Ashvini-Bharani in Aries at 13 deg 20 min)
16 deg 02 min, Aldebaran, alpha Taurus (center of Rohini in Taurus 16 deg 40 min)
23 deg 04 min, Rigel, beta Orion (boundary of Rohini-Mrig in Taurus at 23 deg 20 min)
29 deg 27 min, Pollux, beta Gemini (boundary of Gemini-Cancer)
6 deg 04 min, Regulus, alpha Leo (center of Magha in Leo at 6 deg 40 min)
0 deg 5 min, Spica, alpha Virgo (boundary of Virgo-Libra)
16 deg 0 min, Antares, alpha Scorpio (boundary of Anuradha-Jyteshta in Scorpio at 16 deg 40 min)
0 deg 15 min, Laseth, upsilon Scorpio (boundary of Scorpio-Sagittarius)
(Two other stars of the Scorpion's sting fall in Sagittarius, and identify the Mula mansion.)
29 deg 47, min, Deneb Algedi, delta Capricorn (boundary of Capricorn-Aquarius)
29 deg 43 min, Markab, alpha Pegasus (boundary of Aquarius-Pisces)
So we really have a choice: What is more important? That as many junction stars as possible remain in the signs with their constellational names, or to be able to visually find sign boundaries and lunar mansion boundaries and centers using bright stars? That is, fit as many stars as possible within less than 45 minutes of junction/center positions?
We know from Babylonian star catalogues that the stars were not precisely aligned to the exact minute, and often not to the exact degree in relation to other stars. Had exact measurements been lost by the eras in which we have recorded star catalogues? It's possible that the records we have may have deteriorated from earlier centuries. Or it's possible that Babylonian measurement was never precise to the minute or even to the degree as recorded in the star catalogues that have come down to us.